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Five Personalities 9 years 1 month ago #1124

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When anti-biotic is given, the bone marrow cells stop's it's work?? It still continues it work.

Vidur's resigning Job is because of duty. He does so that he is not forced to fight for kauravas. So he infact was silently in war helping pandavas to win.

We are talking about the same, but with only 1 subtle difference.
I think the difference in intellectual non-identity vs "real "non-identity". In real non-identity, one person will not have any identity to a cell or to the body. But I am talking about having identity to a cell, but then intellectually saying non-identity to the whole body.

My perception is contributing to maintain a healthy body is a also a NEED, because when there is no body, the cell can't exist, so the cell contributes to the body because it NEEDS to exist.

This is where I had a discussion with a Vedic scholar, who said everything is Maya. I said this is how Sanakra debated about the Buddhist Maya vadins. This world or universe is not an illusion. It is real as Consciousness. But it is the separate feeling of Consciousness and Energy is an illusion. Same way, whole body is real, the feeling of cells is illusion. The need is an illusion as a cell, but duty as a body still exist.

Could you explain a bit "What is RESPONSIBILITY?" 'What makes one feel RESPONSIBLE?"

When there is a duality, I and others are separate, then it is lack of responsibility. When one considers everyone as "One" or "Self", then that is responsibility. We will not spit in our house (toilet), but we spit in the road and not in the dust bin. Our home we feels as our own (responsibility naturally comes with the self feeling). But outside , we feel it is not ours, so we do things without lack of responsibility. If you treat the public road as our home, there is no duality, there is no identity no duty sense also needed, because it is yours. We have to tell about responsibility, duty , need common sense only when we have a separate feeling.

Balaram was also finally made to involve in the war by judging Duryodhan and Bhima's fight.
There also Balaram exhibited his emotionality and so Krishna brought him only at that spot. Krishna need not have to do that for Vidhur, because he did not have the duality.

"Today all the older people (perusu, Kaarnavar) are waste to the family and the soceeity, because of their stunted growth."

Today's senior citizens most of them do not grow from Grahasthasan to vanaprastham or to Sanyasa and so end up continued fights with family members. They dont have any higher values knowledge to pass on to the grand children. All they continue is still making more money by doing part time job and also getting pension. Because of this lack of growth, they do not give back anything to society.

Vanaprastham is moving towards Awareness using intellectual understanding and Sanyasa is the practical execution of the Awareness into un-conditional love to society.

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Five Personalities 9 years 1 month ago #1126

@Sakthi

If bone marrow cell still keeps working even after anti-biotic is given, then Vidur can't be comapared to a bone marrow cell, unless he sits in home and pray for the victory of Pandavas. If he would have done that kind action then he wouldn't be called Mahathma.

You contradict your own statement about Vidur. You are mentioning Vidur is a Mahathma and does not have duality, but you are also mentioning he is helping Pandavas silently. How can a non-dual personality favor one side?

Yes you got it right about the intellectual vs real. Level 3 vs Level 5 as per the pyramid showing uni5 pattern.

Your point about Sankara's perception is kind of confusing. You got it right that cell(Manifested energy) is illusion and body (Consciousness) is real. So does the cell has a duty or the body has the duty. In my perception the real can only have duty, so in other terms, "BODY HAS THE DUTY, NOT THE CELL". The shadow (illusion) will move when the body (real) moves, the shadow (Illusion) doesn't have any duty by itself. The body decides when the shadow to move. When the body decides it is not going to move, then the shadow also doesn't move.

You got it absolutely right about the responsibility, that when the feeling of seperate exists then the feeling of responsibility comes in. When there is no duality, then responsibility feeling vanishes, because with non-duality everything done is to onself.

I brought Balaram in discussion just to clear a fact that Balaram also was involved in fight. The only one character who didn't fight the war was Vidur.

The gita was also preached to only 2 characters (Arjun and Dhritarashtra). Because these are two characters who was still not clear about their NEED. Gita's objective is to clarify the NEED and then recommends to stick to it, else we will be in this virtuous cycyle forever (rebirth). When the NEED is clearly definied then when after action is performed and verfication is done, the cycle ends (No more birth).

So again coming back to our discussion "The contentment level comes only when there is clarity of the NEED".

Again you are shifting your perception to Level 1 (Body) when coming to Senior citizens. How can we justify just because body gets old they become senior citizens and they are ready to go to Sanyasa. From their perception their needs are not taken care yet, so they are still working towards fulfilling their needs.

Sanyasa can be taken only when one is clear about the needs. This is what happens to Satyavathi when she didn't know what she needs for Hastinapur, if she was clear Hastinapur needs a king, she would have followed Bharat's policy of democracy, then there shouldn't have been any problem. Here is where Vyasar came in clarified her needs after Dhritarashtra, Pandu and Vidur were born, and then she went to vanaprastham.

When we keep shifting our perception then of course these justifications keeps coming. Because everybody are correct from their point of view. So the body level senior citizens are not waste, they serve a wonderful purpose for the observer to grow.

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Five Personalities 9 years 1 month ago #1128

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Dear Muthu
may be we are telling the same Truth, but using different words.

unless he sits in home and pray for the victory of Pandavas.
Vidhur wanted Dharma to win and not pandavas or kauravas. For that he resgined the job.

The only one character who didn't fight the war was Vidur.
May be if you write your perception of Vidhur resigning the job, might brings consenses with the words we both use.

you are also mentioning he is helping Pandavas silently. How can a non-dual personality favor one side? Apologize for the mistake. Please accept my correction.... he is helping Dharma (Truth) silently

Yes you got it right about the intellectual vs real. Level 3 vs Level 5 as per the pyramid showing uni5 pattern.

Your point about Sankara's perception is kind of confusing. In my perception the real can only have duty Yes I agree... my point was needs are for cell and duty is for body. Does this clears the confusion?


else we will be in this virtuous cycyle forever (rebirth). Very correct...but does the needs change at different levels for different people?. Can anyone fulfill the need and get contentment from it. Or does one contentment in performing duty? Again need is doing actions to cater likes and dislikes and duty is performing actions without likes and dislikes.

How can we justify just because body gets old they become senior citizens and they are ready to go to Sanyasa. From their perception their needs are not taken care yet, so they are still working towards fulfilling their needs.

You are correct , physical bodies do not reflect the Truth. But we should contemplate on the physical forms to reflect what we are supposed to do according to the time. To put it in simple terms, when it is winter, we do activities that are appropriate for winter. Same way seeing the physical (externally) winter, one can take it to reflect the internal winter and the activities to be done for the sesason.


Because everybody are correct from their point of view. This is exactly we are getting through Uni5....but do not forget that Uni5 tells that there is consequence at each perception of view, except at the unconditional state of Consciousness, where it is only duty-Self.

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Five Personalities 9 years 1 month ago #1132

@Sakthi

"Vidhur wanted Dharma to win" - If vidhur WANT something then there is still NEED, so he is not Mahathma. If Vidur is mentioned as Mahathma then there should be a very valid reason. My perception on Vidur his, he was doing the job to save Hastinapur till he understood and realized all are act of Krishna (Consciousness) and Vidur is mere shadow and he doesn't have anything to do, so just went with the flow of the Krishna. Vidur didn't resign the job, Krishna resigned and it reflected as if Vidur is resigning. Here he didn't favor Dharma or Adharma, because both are from the consciousness.

I was having a discussion with one of my friend recently about the death of Dhronacharya. He asked me who killed Dhorona. There were 4 options.

1. Bhima
2. Dhristyaduman
3. Yudistrar
4. Krishna

On the above everything are correst.

1. Bhima killed Dhrona's mind (Mentioning that he killed Aswathaman)
2. Dhristyaduman killed Dhrona's body using the sword
3. Yudistrar killed Dhrona's intelligence because Dhrona trusted Yudistrar's words
4. Krishna was the one who was behind this act, so the Dhrona (Character which was in the awareness) was killed by Krishna the Consciousness.

With the above fact we can see the act of Vidur resigning the job does not belong to the character Vidur's. It was the act of Krishna (Consciousness)


Sankara's Perception - Still confusion
How can a shadow can have need and the duty is done by the body?

Change of needs
Exactly, the need shouldn't change at different levels when one is clear in the needs. If the need changes it means the clarity is still not achieved. Yes by fulfilling one's need completely will get the contentment. To fullfill this need the duty need to be performed. The change in need is the starting point of Maya. Please check the link www.uni5.co/index.php/en/forum/12-source...iness/1056-maya.html

You are clearly mentioning that WE ARE DOING ACTION ACCORDING TO THE SEASON. But just step back and see does the body need's different during Summer, fall, winter, spring? or WE need something different?

As mentioned before Conciousness is not a seperate state by itself. It has the remaining 4 states in them. If you see as consequence, being Consciousness also has a consequence, YOU will loose YOU.

Please explain the below question

Does Consciouness (ENERGY) is lacking any or it is complete always?

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Five Personalities 9 years 1 month ago #1137

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Does Consciousness (ENERGY) is lacking any or it is complete always?

Consciousness is always complete (Poornam). Only Energy feels in-complete and so expands, condenses , interacts, transforms and finally stabilizes to a stable form. Then it finds, that the stabilized form can undergoes decay and death. Therefore it takes the opposite journey. This means to prevent destabilization (immortality) it tries to repair (opposite to transform), dissociate (opposite to interact), expand (opposite to condense) and becomes infinite (opposite to finite in space and time). This is the journey backwards.

Only when the needs are understood as duties, the Energy perception changes to Consciousness. This is not an easy task, it is similar to formation of human being from the big bang. It involves all the processes.

Krishna called Vidhur a mahatma because he was un-conditional, meaning every time he rescued both Pandavas (security) and Kuravas (good advise). This quality Krishna called him as a Mahatma. A Mahatma treats everyone alike as his or her own Self, both to a person who does good and bad to oneself or others. A Mahatma tries to help oneself and others to reach "Home". For Vidhur Dharma was Consciousness (unconditional). This un-conditionality he reflected through regination because then he needs to take one-side. But being in job, he was unconditional, helped both the parties with same love and affection.

This was why Krishna did not criticize Vidur for not taking part in war, but did seriously blame Balarama. he cunningly avoided Balarama who would "Justify" being Truthful and finally help Kauravas win the war (even in the end he was talking all the laws of warfare).

The Energy has to have the "Need" of duty to finally become Consciousness. That one "need" is needed. If that need is intellectually felt as an act of doing "nothing" is a hided laziness. That is why Krishna said do action in inaction and inaction in action.

That last need of Energy to become Consciousness (state without needs) is needed like saying a fire wood is needed to lit a pyre of fire woods, finally this one also extinguishes. Same way, this one need will burn by burning all other needs.

Hope we all clearly understand needs from duty, if not we can still continue the discussion (till no need to need to do needs but duty alone :woohoo: )

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Five Personalities 9 years 1 month ago #1139

@Sakthi

You mention Consciousness is Energy
You mention Consciousness is complete and doesn't need any.
You mentioned Energy feels in-complete and needs something.

Your last statement contradicts the first 2 statements.

Could you clarify what consciousness is? Is Consciousness and Energy are the same or not?

For Vidhur what is Adharma? Is my understanding right that Dharma and Adharma both are expansion of Consciousness? So siding with Dharma alone is not awareness state, it will be intellect state.

Krishna cunningly avoided Balaram!!!!???? Talking laws of warefare is wrong or right? This is definitely intellectual talk because this is biased.

This is the virtuos cycle with which the universe is running. Like keep discussing so that atleast something keeps happening, like hydrogen gets created constantly for no reason. If everybody stops visting and discussing in this forum imagine what happens to this uni5 forum (Like production of new hydrogen stops). The discussion and forum disappears and only the webmaster will exisit (creator of the forum). So it is webmaster's (creator) decision to keep discussion on or to stop. We members are mere refelction (non real). :whistle:

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