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Five Personalities 9 years 1 month ago #1150

@Sakthi

Absolutely from those Acharyas point of view they are everybody. But does still those EVERYBODY exists or those ACHARYAS exist?

You are absolute correct to justify that the perception of internal actions is an excuse to be lazy.

This is exactly I'm also telling the SAL energy (Everything in your terms) transformed from the source (Society in your terms) need to be given back by action which will not transform the source any more, which is the conscious action.

Your analogy is kind of confusing. Somebody says I don't want loan because having loan is a painful feeling, I will live with what I have. But you are saying that is intellectual understanding, that somebody need to get the loan and pay back to realize it. Why can't the bank leave them as it is when they say they don't want loan? Why does the bank need to force the personality to take loan? This is similar to when parents force to eat the kids even though the kids say that they are full. But the parents react as if they they know how much the kid's can eat.

I can't agree more than you on the point that experience is the best way to realize than understanding. But when you understand that touching fire is going to burn your skin, do you still want to realize by touching the fire? Experiencing can be done in different ways for different individuals.

Absolutely Uni5 method is one of an effective way to learn.

Once again, the only point which I would like to stress is "Justifying others actions externally is the most ignorant act", this will lead one from intellectual to mind level. But when one jump from intellectual to awareness level, the justification stops and the individual sees everything is complete at their own stage.
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Last edit: by Uni5.

Five Personalities 9 years 1 month ago #1151

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Experiencing can be done in different ways for different individuals. No different ways, only one way....to experience consciousness, one has to be consciousness and not at Energy level. A child who never put his hand in life cannot know. But once put then it may not want to do it again. But atleast it has to put once and feel it, otherwise it is only an intellectual understanding.

justification stops and the individual sees everything is complete at their own stage. I would put in other words, looking at other external actions in totality is the best way to understand, otherwise it is justification. Lawyers "justify" actions and the Judge, judges the Truth, because he is un-condtional or unbiased.

Example, a person drinks black tea in a bar...just that alone you cannot use to say he is an alcoholic. A whole investigation gives the right judgement.

But does still those EVERYBODY exists or those ACHARYAS exist?
If the acharya's actions are for his needs , then "Acharya exists. If the Acharya's actions are for everybody's needs, nothing for him or her, then the Acharya does not exists. This is why actions have so much importance.

You are absolute correct to justify that the perception of internal actions is an excuse to be lazy.

Your analogy is kind of confusing. Why does the bank need to force the personality to take loan?. Sorry if I did not communicate in simple words. If the individuality exists, then the Consciousness is no more that, but "Energy. when there is Energy, there is personality...needs...loss...gain etc.

Consciousness does not force the Energy in any means. It is the Energy that does all the forcing. It is like a student from India (Consciousness) who by his own wish came to USA (Energy) to study (enjoy individuality). It was his wish, India or USA did not force.

In USA, then he has to work to keep his wishes of USA to go forward. He keeps transforming his time and body energy into dollar energy. Now if he is tired of this life, he can very well go to India. But he needs money to go back and also pay back the loan he took. The USA Government will not allow that. Sitting in USA he can intellectualize that has he has no desires (needs and wants) and now he is in India :lol: .

In reality, he has to pay back all debts before the govt officials allow to be back to India. He has only one choice, he has to work more and at the same time stop spending his earned money. He has to really really lead a miser's life. Then he can pay and get out of USA.

Most of us coming to USA are in this reality. We had a goal of a certain amount and go back to India. But then we post pone going to India, because we keep getting loans of a house, a car and children education. Then we are struck here. The same is for life also.

Here no body forced any one, it is all an individual's desire.

Peace Pilgrim lived in USA but the tax officers were not after her, because she was not earning a single penny. She was as free like being in India (being in Energy level but actually in Consciousness state). But every single step she took, she did was for world peace. That is duty , that is being unconditional and the Consciousness state. She was totally exempted from tax.

But earning and spending, we cannot be tax exempted. Hope Ramana Maharishi and Peace pilgrim actions are justified.

This is why we are asked to do five loans to be paid back.

Pancha mahã yagnas:

(1) Manushya Yagna - self desires (needs) to be fulfilled. -Body
(2) Pitru Yagna - Ancestors - Mind
(3) Deva Yagna - Cosmic officers (Intelligence)
(4) Bhuta Yagna - Cosmic Energies, Guru (Awareness)
(5) Brãhma Yagna (Consciousness)

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Five Personalities 9 years 1 month ago #1155

Yes the only way to experience is to be consciousness. But what is the use of Acharya's teaching, that putting your hand in fire is going to burn you, if the student is going to put their hand anyways in the fire?

Yes you are absolutely right, if totality can be seen in external actions, or emotions or intellect, then there will be no justification.

Why should one even get a curiosity about whether the person is an alcoholic or not? If the person whomever is drinking whatever in the bar, why does it make another individual curious about the action?

If Acharya's actions are for everybody's needs why didn't the Acharyas do sacrifice and wait till everyone come out of the cycle and get out of the cycle as the last individual? or as per your explanation if from Acharya's perception everybody are themselves and if Acharyas are out of the cycle, Who is exisiting now?

Exactly from Peace Pilgrim point of view walking is the only action she performed (physically), so is it ignorant or intellectual to see Peace Pilgrim didn't do anything else except walking? She was able to connect to conscious just by walking without any other actions. This is what exactly which I mentioned, here Peace Pilgrim doesn't NEED any, even though as per law she is eligible for government support. In case if Peace Pilgrim didn't had physical legs and has the same connection to conscious, she might have sat on one place for peace. Both the actions (Walking and sitting) are the same to this personality. But if an external source judges walking as Rajasic and sitting as Tamasic action, whom to blame?

Ramana Maharishi and Peace Pilgrim are the same from my perception. They have two different physical action, but the purpose is the same, so just by their physical actions a person in intellect level can only justify then Rajasic, Tamasic, but a person in awareness level will see their action as Saatvic.

Below is my perception of all our great Acharyas

They are like parents who save wealth for their kids, so that the kids basic needs are taken care, so that kids can focus on the other things. Acharyas saved these wealth because realizing that they couldn't achive what they wanted, so they wanted their kids to achieve. Here Acharyas are transformed to the message which we have now. So Acharyas has become AWARENESS, not merged with CONSCIOUSNESS, Acharyas are taking birth continously, they are still in this vicious cycle . So we their kids if we want to fulfill the purpose of those Acharyas and give Moksha to Acharyas, then we need to take off the Acharaya's character from within us and take only the message and live, instead of imitaing the Acharyas life style and trying to become them (This is the actual Bhuta Yagna/Pitru Bali if we consider our Acharyas as Pitru). All the message which Acharya's has left is to make our life simple. But if kids doesn't want to accept these messages (Wealth) and wanted to try out putting this hand in fire to realize (which was already done by Acharyas), what to be done to help these kids?

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Last edit: by muthuksundaram.

Five Personalities 9 years 1 month ago #1156

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if the student is going to put their hand anyways in the fire?
It is like a child getting burned alone and cries in pain vs, to be with the parent. An Acharya will teach both about the experience and also pacify the emotional pain. So it an oppurtnity. In other words, self learning to swim vs guidance with an instructor.

Why should one even get a curiosity about whether the person is an alcoholic or not?

Please dont take the example literally, but understand about wholistic view vs fragmented view.

Who is existing now? The whole exist now.


Below is my perception of all our great Acharyas Very correct.

what to be done to help these kids? There are many kids like this, then allow them to suffer and learn in a hard way.

But if an external source judges walking as Rajasic and sitting as Tamasic action, whom to blame?

There is no body to blame. All this was to explain one thing, from your wonderful example.

A disciple goes to Lord Buddha and says "I WANT HAPPINESS"
Buddha replied take the "I" and "WANT" and see what is left.


That "take off" is not an intellectual imagination, but that take off requires an action (karma) to be done and experienced. This is where I said, Seva is that action.

Ramanana Maharishi said "All karma actions bind us more to the phala and put in viscious cycle. But seva alone with the thought that it is only Bhagavan's act (no individual feeling) frees from Karma.

It is like again it childhood we do a play , where we want to pick the odd guy out of game, a person will be in the game, but he is not involved, but without him it wont be solved.

That is how the karma of Seva does. It is the final action one can do to liberate oneself.

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Five Personalities 9 years 1 month ago #1157

@Sakthi

I'm assuming you are mentioning the instructor can be in physical form or instructions form.

I understand about your point about the alcoholic analogy. But everyone misses out the point "WHY SHOULD ONE JUSTIFY OTHERS WHEN THE OTHERS DOESN'T EVEN MATTER FOR THE OBSERVER", this is like the RED LADY in the training program in the movie Matrix. Red lady character is not needed in the training program at all, but introduced deliberately to practice ignoring those kind of aspects in life. If importance is given to those characters, then those characters turns out to be "Mr.SMITH" ha ha ha :-). So in intellectual stage the biggest practice is to try to avoid the characters which is not required during a task, this will lead to the awareness level. Like in your example when someone goes to the bar instead of observing what other's are doing, do what to be done there and get out, else the person drinking black tea ruins your whole purpose of going to a bar.

So you mean neither ACHARYA or EVERYBODY are existing now.

Absolutely you are correct, let the kids learn learn in a hard way. That is the limit for an intelligent person. An awareful person sees these kids as reflection of ones own self and learn from them instead of trying to change / convert these kids.

You are absolutely correct, TAKEING OFF the I and WANT are the only action an individual has to perform. And as you mentioned unconditional seva is a practical way to experience it.

Seva can be categorized in 4 levels

Body level Seva - Give back wealth (not just money, it might be physical works) to the society
Mind level Seva - Give emotional support back to the society.
Intelligence Seva - Give Intelligence back to the society to discriminate good and bad (To avoid RED LADY)
Awareness Seva - Give awareness to the society

When all the above are done to accumulate SAL energy, then how many times this seva is done the individual will not be out of the cycle.

But if this seva becomes a conscious act, meaning these sevas are performed without any intention of accumulating the SAL Energy, then what ever giving back becomes the SAL Energy going back to the Society (Consciousness)

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Five Personalities 9 years 1 month ago #1158

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sevas are performed without any intention of accumulating the SAL Energy


Thats it. Mangalam. Subham The End.

That doing Karma without intention is what we call as Duty. It starts as duty, then it ripens as nish-kaama karma spreading the fragrance of Ananya Bhakthi and the sweetness of Bless of being the Self, eternally.

But I am back with the sequel............

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