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Does right and wrong, good and bad matter?
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Re: Why karma? 9 years 2 months ago #1033

@Sakthi, Govind and Naran

Wonderful thoughts...

Please also clarify when our life is not in our control and is all run by the supreme Consciousness, where everything (Doer, done by,Doing) infact is The Consciousness how can we say one person has performed a bad karma and declare him to be a bad person? Why is he made to perform such actions?

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Re: Why karma? 9 years 2 months ago #1034

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Please also clarify when our life is not in our control and is all run by the supreme Consciousness, where everything (Doer, done by,Doing) infact is The Consciousness how can we say one person has performed a bad karma and declare him to be a bad person? Why is he made to perform such actions?

Happy Guru Poornima to all of you. And you have asked such a beautiful question on this day.

Consciousness is unconditional and it does not control and run any actions. At the same time , without it nothing can happen. When the Consciousness is conditioned, it is Energy and that Energy undergoes evolution and as a Human being with the "I" thought, feels doership and suffers. There is no good and bad karma, but fruits of actions, which the doership holding "I" classifies as good and bad based on its likes and dislikes.

Then this likes and dislikes again makes human to repeat actions to get good effects and avoid bad effects and unfortunately ends up doing more actions, creating bad karma also unknowingly in that process. This cycles continues for ever.

So the "I"ness has to be dissolved to enjoy the actions without any suffering. Example, when I was young, I watched a movie and Identified to one character. When the character died in the movie, I cried loud in the theater. A person next to me tapped on my shoulders and said, child it is a movie, nobody really died, just witness and enjoy the show.
We all are so identified with the characters and so we suffer from it , instead of enjoying the whole show. The movie reviewers, watch it without identification to the characters. Therefore they have chance to analyze each and every scene, and write a report on the music score, art direction, the cosmetic aspects, the direction, the story plot, etc etc. Even a tragedy they watch as an art and evaluate it. They enjoy the show, instead of a person who cannot accept a death of a character and after the movie also grumbles about how the director killed the character etc etc.

When we remove conditionality in our attitude and accept the way things are and make changes, then what ever actions we do become an art to be enjoyed by us. Naturally knowledge flows within about the deep mystery of life. External research will be on external forms, and gives rise to ever ending search. But internal transformation gives us the insight and allows to witness the mystery of life.

This un-conditionality is not to be understood intellectually but practiced every moment in life. Guru helps us to train such a attitude in mind.

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Re: Why karma? 9 years 2 months ago #1037

@Thanks Sakthi.

Please correct me if I understood the concept wrongly.

So can we say, whatever is happening before us is not predestined but karmas performed by us to achieve certain fruits (based on our likes and dislikes)with the " I " attitude?


How do we control such people performing bad karmas? Consider a simple example like a govt employee who behaves rudely with the customers and spoils the business.

How should the manager react to this situation? If the manager just witnesses the situation, the business wouldn't grow and instead if he responds with anger the manager himself spoils his own health, the office environment and gets bad impression before others.

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Re: Why karma? 9 years 2 months ago #1038

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So can we say, whatever is happening before us is not predestined but karmas performed by us to achieve certain fruits (based on our likes and dislikes)with the " I " attitude?

Thats correct.


How do we control such people performing bad karmas?


No body can control any body other than oneself. Force can only externally control another person. This mean as long as the force is there, the individual will suppress the desire. But best force is the internal force or urge to change. This can be brought by us by increasing "Awareness" to the other person.

Consider a simple example like a govt employee who behaves rudely with the customers and spoils the business. How should the manager react to this situation? If the manager just witnesses the situation, the business wouldn't grow and instead if he responds with anger the manager himself spoils his own health, the office environment and gets bad impression before others.

The manager should give awareness to the employee about the importance of nice behavior to the customer.

If that does not make any change, then the Manager should say that the customer is more important than the employee and for that the employee may be terminated from the job.

In India the second action cannot be done, because of Job security, which is a wrong policy. All have to suffer for a long law exists. This will continue until we can no longer handle the situation. This is the law of nature.
The following user(s) said Thank You: neelima

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Re: Why karma? 9 years 2 months ago #1040

hi,
very good points and well explained
For me the last sentence has > 90% of the weight in the entire para.
This un-conditionality is not to be understood intellectually but practiced every moment in life
This is not so easy as Ramakrishna paramahamsa says our rishis used to do hard tapas that is leaving behind everything, day and night living in forests with very minimum necessities so that they can focus on awareness and nothing else. Also in those times human capabilities were excellent for eg: entire mahabharata which is 1 lac slokas were transferred through guru to sisya through memory thats the reason sanskrit deosnt have script(later devanagari is used). Then Paramahamsa says in this present age where we struggle to keep up the daily life and cant do that kind of hard tapas so the best way to grow spiritually is by repeating god's name. Anyway all roads lead to same destination. Though this point may not be relevant directly to the topic here just thought of sharing..
to put sakthi answers in my own words...
our actions/situations and consequences are controlled by 3 things human efforts, past karmas and god's grace. As it was pointed earlier by Sakthi when we succeed we think only human efforts and increase the ego, when failed we blame on 2nd and 3rd and go into depression. God has given Viveka and Vairagya to act in right way. Use viveka to grow spiritually from each and every situation at the same time use vairagya to be detached from that situation, here detachment should be detached attachment (english doesnt have equivalent word for vairagya i guess). Yes this is easier said than done, thats where constant repetition of God's name helps. by repeating god's name we will be present moment all the time which is most important be it is materialistic or spiritual life.

hope i havent confused those who read this ;)

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Re: Why karma? 9 years 2 months ago #1044

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Dear Kasul
No you havent confused, but given more clarity to the discussion.
Naama is very important.


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